A question that has been raised before and will undoubtably be raised again is if Japanese Traditionalism is a necessary adjunct to Aikido? I have seen too many sensei who belittle their students and hold some sort of order only through fear both verbally and physically(sometimes subtle, sometimes not). I have never thought that this is the aim of Aikido.
A friend made the point that sometimes this type of training is needed to fulfill an end, but I cannot see how practicing in what I see to be an abusive way can lead to the virtues attributed to Aikido.
I have trained in rougher martial arts which have people who at least try to be on the level, instead of lording it over others.

Heirarchy has its place in most Aikido dojos, a lot has more to do with what happend in Japan is the period leading up to WWII then any traditional underpinning. Some more or less extreme examples can be found in University dojos so I hear but to be perfectly frank every dojo I have ever visited in Japan including the university ones (I started Aikido at Tsukuba Daigaku) have been a real pleasure.

I remember shortly after returning to Canada the last time being lectured by someone on Japanese behaviour and what the Japanese were like. They even knew I had spent several years there but no matter - they were right. My slight by the way was doing a quick change in the dojo when there were no women around. Where I train if the women are bothered they better make themselves scarce pretty quick at closing time.

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Originally posted by johanlook:
I have in the last year or so seen examples of traditionalism in Aikido which seems to lead to a very dark energy within the dojo.
For the most part the heirarchical system in this dojo has led to a reality where the sensei does not wish to be questioned on anything whether it is Aikido related or not.
This has led to a general feeling where people do not feel they can speak freely. While some students are going through the "hero worship" thing, others feel that they are held with some contempt by their teacher.
I am lucky that I train at another dojo now and while I cannot say that this is not present here, having several teachers has improved the situation.

A question that has been raised before and will undoubtably be raised again is if Japanese Traditionalism is a necessary adjunct to Aikido? I have seen too many sensei who belittle their students and hold some sort of order only through fear both verbally and physically(sometimes subtle, sometimes not). I have never thought that this is the aim of Aikido.
A friend made the point that sometimes this type of training is needed to fulfill an end, but I cannot see how practicing in what I see to be an abusive way can lead to the virtues attributed to Aikido.
I have trained in rougher martial arts which have people who at least try to be on the level, instead of lording it over others.

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There are all sorts of arseholes claiming to teach Aikido.
What you describe is not traditionalism it is nothing more that someone putting their control trip on you & others. This sort of thing does nothing to better you or your Aikido. Remember you pay them to train, you don’t go to a shop where you are abused every time you walk in the door. My advise is to ignore & boycott people like that no matter how good they are at what they do.

It seems to me that a lot of people outside Japan are getting a hell of a lot more mileage from having been in Japan than is warranted. It seems to be touted as somehow an elevated state of consciousness rather than a geographic location.

I had a ball in Japan, and I found out that people who are not very good are equally not very good in Japan. People who are great are probably better just by virtue of the number of superior training partners they've had.

But the people with whom I trained were simply nice, sincere people doing their individual best to do exactly what I was doing, trying to learn a difficult art.

I was (well mostly) polite, and it was reciprocated. If that qualifies as traditional, it was very traditional.

I get sick of the American Samurai wannabe's who blather forth with dojo Nihongo and Japanese trappings for the sake of "credibility". The people I respect stress properly traditional things like being fully present with your partner and being aware of your surroundings and the people around you.

One of my favorite teachers is a Japanese man who is, in certain ways very traditional and in other ways particularly not traditional. What he is, is truly himself. That is I think, the point.

Yes I used Japanese names and commands but it was part of the allure for me - explanations were in English.

It was however far more relaxed then some "real world" dojos I visited. You may have run into the type - trying to be more Japanese than the Japanese. I consider that unfortunate. Even worse are those with limited experience in Japan who feel the need to impress.

As an aside I think as far as Aikido is concerned there is something more than Geography involved. Technically you can get as good outside as inside, as you can have as bad inside as outside. One of the subtle or not so subtle problems one encounters in Japan is the implicit assumption that only Japanese can truely get it when in reallity there are some gaijin who do and a lot of Japanese who don't. Still there is a lot to be said for immersion in the culture since Aikido is not just technical. I really do believe that if you are really serious about Aikido you need to spend some time here.

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Originally posted by Mike Collins:
Having been only briefly in Japan, and only once at that I could be wrong. But...

It seems to me that a lot of people outside Japan are getting a hell of a lot more mileage from having been in Japan than is warranted. It seems to be touted as somehow an elevated state of consciousness rather than a geographic location.

I had a ball in Japan, and I found out that people who are not very good are equally not very good in Japan. People who are great are probably better just by virtue of the number of superior training partners they've had.

But the people with whom I trained were simply nice, sincere people doing their individual best to do exactly what I was doing, trying to learn a difficult art.

I was (well mostly) polite, and it was reciprocated. If that qualifies as traditional, it was very traditional.

I get sick of the American Samurai wannabe's who blather forth with dojo Nihongo and Japanese trappings for the sake of "credibility". The people I respect stress properly traditional things like being fully present with your partner and being aware of your surroundings and the people around you.

One of my favorite teachers is a Japanese man who is, in certain ways very traditional and in other ways particularly not traditional. What he is, is truly himself. That is I think, the point.

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