has anyone of you had the opportunity to see and watch the new Kondo's DVD published by Quest?

If you have, it is yet another occasion to prove Mr. Kondo never went over Hiden Mokuroku, and not all of it. There are a number of really gross errors on the DVD, albeit for contradictions with what he himself said and wrote in his book.

The first is a technique practiced in one enbu present in the DVD and then represented by Kondo later: it is a kote-gaeshi against a chudan tsuki attack. That is NOT Daito-ryu, but pure and simple Aikido. I have no doubt any of you Aikidokas can check it up and confirm it.

But the real, terrible, thing he does in this DVD is presenting what he thinks is Yonkajo serie of the Hiden Mokuroku. THEY DO IT KNEELING! In Idori!!! Unfortunately the Yonkajo serie is comprised only of 15 standing techniques, as you may check in Kato and Arisawa videos, or in Kondo's BOOK, where he also states the Yonkajo serie is only done in tachiai, or standing. Of this you may check out on every other Daito-ryu teacher, from Kato, Sano, Arisawa to Okabayashi, and they'll have a good laugh.
Then what are those techniques (3-4) they show in the DVD labeled as Yonkajo? They are henka from Ikkajo ura, from Sankajo and Nikajo... My impression is he put where he thought is right some techniques he remembers from his learning, without exactly knowing what belongs to what.

Many other regular techniques are also done in a really pitiful way, like Konoa Gaeshi or Katahadori from Nikajo.

I wonder why a Menkyo Kaiden lets these BIG errors (the biggest of all regarding Yonkajo in IDORI!!!) in a new DVD.

But it also interesting the part of his interview where he says in Abashiri they executed Ippondori parrying like a block while Takeda Sensei taught only to him the secret way of entering parrying shomenuchi instead of waiting. It is unfortunate that in Abashiri they know and teach that too, plus other 3 or 4 henka he never saw!

He is really too full of himself and pretentious to think he was some "elected one": what he perceives Takeda Sensei taught him as "secrets" were the norm for Takeda's every day direct pupils...

'Course, when you start with insults...silence is the **best** we can expect.

Ron Tisdale

unsure what a chudan tsuki attack is

sam

Tsuki -- thrust.

Thrusting strike to your partners stomache or chest.

Ron Tisdale

Chudan Tsuki Kotegaeshi is the seventh tachiai technique of Nikajo. The problem is not the fact he does it, the problem is how! Veery circular and round, beautiful movement, very little real kotegaeshi (pushing it straight behind the shoulder instead of horizontally...)

[ March 06, 2003: Message edited by: Judasith ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ron Tisdale:
sugetsuki is also used, although I'm sure I've got the spelling wrong. Its the moon reflecting on water reference.

---

I believe it's "SUIGETSU", Ron. What does this mean? If I recall aright, in Saito's aikido (via the Cranes' Aikido in training videos) SUIGETSU seems to mean NAGE elicits the attack by initiating. I don't know if this obtains in DR. I would like to hear from someone more confident than myself. Thanks.

How nice to hear from you again. I remember seeing one of the last posts you wrote where you "act" as if you feel it is so terrible that Daito-ryu has suffered from this most unfortunate split and you wish the teachers would make amends. Well, as always you contradict yourself. How could anyone make amends in an environment where you are always stirring the pot? It is like you mix it up and then walk away with a smile on your face. Nobody on this BB prompted you to slander others, that seems to be something you do well on your own.

I can really understand where you are coming from, really. I too become agitated by those who promote things incorrectly! As for Kondo Sensei being one of Tokimune Sensei's favorites, I guess the fact that Tokimune Sensei chose him, as his direct representative will never be enough. As for your basis of reference, you mention only those in your very notorious organization (how interesting).

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe (I know it's a stretch), but just maybe your teachers could be incorrect? You speak as one who knows, but have continually failed to support your statements. This only weakens your credibility. I guess it's the rest of the world that's wrong!

You continually attack Kondo Sensei's Menkyo Kaiden as if he had no other basis of legitimacy. If you will remember, he was awarded the Kyoju Dairi in 1974. Again, even if your argument is that the certification was temporary (although incorrectly), why was it that none (that is NONE) of your organization's leaders ever received even this "temporary" certification?

Do you dispute the Kyoju Dairi, the 7th dan, the position of Soke Dairi, etc., etc. I guess my arithmetic is just poor, but something just isn't adding up. Could it be that Tokimune Sensei just gave these things away to Kondo Sensei? If so, why? Think before you answer here, if you answer yes, would you not be putting your teachers (none ranked above 5th dan, none with teaching licenses, none charged with the responsibility to be an international and direct representative to Tokimune Sensei) in the same boat? If not, why not? Are you questioning Tokimune Sensei’s judgment? If so, who are you to do so?

As for viewing video or DVD representing different teachers, I have faith that the serious martial artist can discern between the two. I will go as far to say that even those who do not study Daito-ryu could tell whom the real player is.

In the end, as always, your sour grapes shine through and I believe anyone can see that you are just upset that the world listens to Kondo Sensei and not your organization. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. Maybe someday we will be able to speak to one another without you throwing stones. I do not mind discussion, nor do I mind openly voiced opinions. But I do not think you go about promoting you views too well. Maybe if you approached others in a different manner you would receive more positive feedback.

In closing, I would just like to point out one thing. In the past you have repeatedly mentioned the relationship between Stanley and Kondo Sensei. I think you imply that Kondo Sensei gains legitimacy through his relationship with Stanley. But as a journalist and martial artist, Stanley has always been about one thing, the truth. Kondo Sensei is not legitimate because of Stanley. Stanley supports Kondo Sensei because he is legitimate.

Ted Howell
Daito-ryu Study Group
Baltimore, Maryland

You have become really nothing more than a troll. Do you realize this? The sad result for you is that the more you post, the more people will simply ignore you and those associated with you. As such, I can't see how your insulting and baseless posts helps the alleged DR group you are associated with. It certainly does not reflect well on them that you are representing them in such a poor, and ill-mannered, way.

I think Ted has made his points very well - points that you have yet to answer adequately. Why is it that it is Kondo Sensei that must always defend himself against such baseless accusations, and never people like you?

Let's put is straight. Your group has NO CREDENTIALS as representing mainline DR. They have NO LEGITIMACY as the inheritors of DR. In fact, members of your group RESIGNED from Tokimune's dojo BEFORE he died. NOBODY in your group was given a 7th dan, as Kondo Sensei was, nor a Kyoju Dairi, nor a Menkyo Kaiden. The highest rank bestowed on anybody in your group was a 5th dan. Tell me, who are you to claim that Kondo Sensei is a fake and your group the real deal? Where is your evidence?

No, please, don't even try to answer that question. All you will do is throw out more baseless accusations. Let me try one on for you: hmmmm, I suspect that members of your group don't even hold 5th dan ranking. Yeah. Let's see. They were forged certificates! In fact, members of your group don't have anything above a shodan. My sources tell me that those certificates were forged! Yes! Now, prove me wrong. Go ahead.

And as for your constant criticism of Kondo's techniques, based on analysis of his tapes, let me just say that I have seen your group's ikkajo tape, and politeness keeps me from saying what I really think about it. I invite anyone to compare the tapes. Let them form their own judgments. It doesn't take an expert eye to see why Kondo Sensei was considered superior in technique (among other things, obviously: i.e. rei) by Tokimune.

Now I am going to sit back and watch as you throw out more baseless accusations in response. Always the same. But I wanted to say my piece.

(I've got to learn to stop arguing with trolls. When will I learn they simply have not evolved the capacity to understand complex language construction and logical thought patterns.)

Arman Partamian

[ March 06, 2003: Message edited by: Arman Partamian ]

[ March 06, 2003: Message edited by: Arman Partamian ]

So it really was you who bought the DVD off of Ebay with the Ebay acount "Judasith" (item # 3307753787). I have been meaing to ask you about that... now my question is answered.

peace,

Guys, let me repeat for another time I did not insult any of you... nor directly nor using some words like "ogre" or "goblin"...

What I say is that my teacher was there at the time, he had no reason to stay with a party or the other. He was there when Takeda Tokimune was still alive, practiced with him, practiced with Kondo also. He had no grudge with any of them... he simply went to the same teachers who directed the lessons when Sensei was alive and after, lessons in which Kondo was another pupil, not a teacher himself. I have been there in Abashiri too, I saw the Daitokan, I saw the photos, the videos, the enbu at Tokyo Budokan where there are Kato and Arisawa Sensei with Takeda Sensei and not Kondo. Arisawa is also present in Kondo's new DVD demonstrating kenjutsu with Tokimune, for Takeda Sensei always did Ono-ha Itto-ryu with him.
Regarding Kyoju Dairi it is only a licence to temporarily teach in the absence of the Sensei. The Abashiri students and teacher didn't need it, since they practiced and teached every day in the PRESENCE of Takeda Sensei...
Regarding the famous "resignations" actually they were ASKED to go away by Takeda's daughter and Kondo, who said that they shouldn't teach and practice in the Daitokan while the Soke was hospitalized, and they respectfully abided to the decision, albeit ridicolous, since they taught the art and were technical directors for 11 years before the death of Takeda Sensei.

As you may see, I'm not offending nor insulting anyone. The purpose of this topic is the analysis of this new DVD on which there are several errors even as compared to Kondo's own book!

Sincerely,

G. Merello

P.s.
If by watching the videos you do prefer one group or the other it is simply because of a different martial background... if you come from Aikido it is no doubt you'll like Kondo, since he mostly do the techniques applying circular movements and "aiki", while the Abashiri group follows exactly the art practiced and taught by Takeda Sensei...

Still no answers. I must say, by insulting Kondo Sensei, you insult me personally. A question that comes to mind is this: if you are soo sure what you are doing is without a doubt correct and that the mainline Daito-ryu is incorrect, why would you even entertain the purchase of said DVD?

I pose this possibility regarding the credentials of your organization: It has been asserted that Kato Sensei (notice I do not disrespect the man by writing his name without a proper title as you have done on numerous occasions) taught Daito-ryu in the stead of Tokimune Sensei at the Daitokan dojo; during the last several years of the Headmaster's life. Could it be that the Headmaster had nobody else to do that? Could it be that he had a certain pool of students at the Daitokan and he had to choose somebody, possibly not his choice if given another? Well, you continue to stress the teaching at the Daitokan as if that is more significant than an international representative. While Kato Sensei was teaching at the Daitokan dojo (although the Hombu, still one dojo and supervised), Kondo Sensei was representing Tokimune Sensei on a worldwide scale with Tokimune Sensei's blessing and direction!!! Who are you to be the judge of Tokimune Sensei's decisions? But the fact cannot be changed. You take the word of someone who at best has a tainted veiwpoint. It is quite easy for you to say something like teaching credentials were unnecessary when nobody in your organization was awarded same. Tokimune Sensei only awarded two students the kyoju dairi certificates and this means nothing? It is insignificant? How so? We continue to go round and round and I am getting dizzy, again.

Ted Howell
Daito-ryu Study Group
Baltimore, Maryland

Judasith,
You go way past bad mouthing the teacher these students have chosen to follow. You accuse the man of all sorts of hideous acts without presenting anything resembling a real fact. This is the teacher these folks have dedicated their time and effort to learn from and you clearly mocked their decision with your original post on this thread. Then to top it off you have the gall to claim you haven't insulted them. What rubbish!! You wrote it, you meant it, so be it. At least be man enough to stand up to your own words.

I can't believe you didn't mean to insult those that follow Kondo Sensei, your first post was very clear that was your intention. Before you look more foolish by continuing to claim otherwise think about how you feel when someone insults your mother or sister or close friend. Unless you are so self centered that you truly have no feelings for the others in your life I am sure you likewise feel the insult. From reading the posts of the folks that train with Kondo Sensei it is clear they feel like family with Kondo. Surely you knew this and posted with it in mind, to claim otherwise......well it speaks volumes about you.

mark

Wrong. That is not what I am saying. First of all, I don't come from aikido. Second of all, it is not a matter of mere preference (if it was, you wouldn't constantly be trying to prove that Kondo Sensei does it all incorrectly and your group does it correctly). Again, I would hope that people take my advice and sit down and compare the two tapes. Hell, just compare the DVD to your group's ikkajo tape.

Let me put it this way: I believe your group's tapes are very valuable. I would use them to clearly demonstrate how NOT to perform the techniques.

BTW, what about those forged documents granting your teachers 5th dan? Please explain this to me.

Arman Partamian

[ March 06, 2003: Message edited by: Arman Partamian ]

I have seen the ikkajo tape from your group. They are sloppy and look like brutes trying to force their way into technique.

You posted previously that Kondo sensei does technique wrong because he throws all the time. You then claim that Daito-ryu technique is supossed to drop uke, not project them. However on your group's tape, obiotoshi "belt DROP" nage projects uke almost a whole tatami mat away!?! Where is the "drop"? Yes i realize they will eventually fall to the floor, but when projected nearly 6 feet before hitting said floor... that just doesn't seem like dropping to me.

When Kondo sensei does this technique uke is nearly horizontal and nage allows the uke to fall straight down... that seems more like a drop to me.

Here is an experiment: Find a random person on the street. Get a ball of some sort (baseball for this experiment). Toss the ball about 6 feet away. Then hold the ball out at arms length and just let go of it and allow it to fall. Then ask the random person you find which one was a throw and which one was a drop. Unless they are learning impaired I will bet you $10 that they will tell you the first one was thrown the second one was dropped.

So either you don't know what you're talking about or your teachers lie to you. I suspect it's a little of both. This is not an insult directed toward you G. Merello, but clearly directed toward your teachers, who only have fools and ingrates for students!

It's 3:30 am here and I have to get to bed, so I won't comment on the other 29 techniques I saw and how silly they were, on the ex-Seishinkan tape. You get my drift.
Chris Covington
Baltimore, MD

While waiting for your reply, I glanced over your last post again. I have a question for you. You say that the kyoju dairi is a license that only allows someone to temporarily teach in the absence of the Sensei, correct? Now that Tokimune Takeda Sensei has passed, who authorizes your sensei’s to teach? By what authority do they teach if not under the direct supervision of Tokimune Sensei?

I find it interesting that Kato Sensei was not entrusted to carry on teaching in the Daitokan after the Headmaster was hospitalized!!! Since your teachers were never awarded even this temporary license, how is it they can teach legitimately now? You say that they did not need a license because they taught while Tokimune Sensei was present at the dojo. So, if you are confused here, let me continue with this mode of reasoning. Tokimune Sensei awarded the kyoju dairi license to Kondo Sensei. Through this certification, Tokimune Sensei authorized him to teach even when he was absent. So Kondo Sensei was authorized by Tokimune Sensei to teach anywhere in the world, correct? Kato Sensei was not awarded said credentials and thus was authorized to teach only at the dojo of the Headmaster and under the Headmaster's direct supervision!

How is it that you do not understand this concept? Kondo Sensei was authorized to teach and further the art of Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu as a direct representative of Tokimune Sensei, anywhere, anytime, to anyone, period! Does this not strike you as being very different from one who was ordered to stop teaching at the Daitokan while (because) the Headmaster was not present?

You are at the very least entertaining! If you could just sit back and listen to yourself, you make no sense. You have stated that the seniors in Abashiri (who exactly is left now?) do not put much stock in aiki (actually asserted prior to this thread, believe me when I quote you, I have copies of everything you have posted on this) and that they continue on exactly in the manner in which they were taught. Ok, well what if the way they were taught was not to include the true secrets of the art? There is much to support that the “highest” levels of the art are aiki oriented! Let’s see, whom shall we name? How many readers of this BB can name legitimate teachers of Daito-ryu [Aiki] jujutsu that have stressed the importance of aiki? For starters, how about Morihei Ueshiba, arguably Sokaku Takeda’s top student (aside from Tokimune Sensei). How about Kodo Horikawa Sensei? And the list continues. Maybe your teachers don’t put much stock in aiki because they were never taught to that level! Just food for thought.

Ted Howell
Daito-ryu Study Group
Baltimore, Maryland