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He is a student of Daito-ryu and thus should provide some courtesy to a man that Tokimune Takeda Sensei awarded the Menkyo Kaiden

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I practice Daito ryu and although very respectful to and of Mr Kondo and his students the fact that he was awarded menkyo kaiden is not relevant to him being 'my' Sensei or teacher. So by your logic every Menkyo kaiden in every system should be called sensei? even if he doesnt teach and does not intend to??

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It

Judasith,
I have read all of the material!! You still fail to support your claims with anything substantive. We are still waiting for answers. If you are wondering why the same questions are posed over and over, it is because you continually fail to answer them. Again I will ask you how do you know that any part of your essay was “approved” by Kondo Sensei? Have you spoken with him, and again I will say, I have!! Where is the proof supporting your claims? None has been produced to date. This makes me believe you have no answers because you are in over your head. If so, please put me in touch with someone who can provide answers.

Lay the facts out on the table so the public can see them. It is as simple as that. For starters, please list Kato Sensei’s credentials; to include any teaching license he may have. Please include the dates issued / awarded and by whom. After you produce this, we will be ready to speak.

I never got past the question of legitimacy to ask you about techniques. If you cannot satisfy the questions of how and why your organization is legitimate then the rest is irrelevant!! In regards to the nickname “Devil Kondo”, it is in reference to his duties as Tokimune Sensei’s right hand man. I believe Kondo Sensei explains quite clearly how the role of Soke Kyoju Dairi was a thankless and difficult position. I’ll assume your question arose from a translation error. Thank you for addressing Kondo Sensei in a more respectful manner.

Ted Howell
Daito-ryu Study Group
Baltimore, Maryland

So your head guy, a 5th dan who was never given a teaching license by Tokimune Sensei and who resigned before Tokimune Sensei died because he was angry that he was asked not to teach in Tokimune's absence, gave your teacher, who was a 3rd dan that began study in 1990, a shihan license?!

'Nuff said.

Arman Partamian

This gets more silly every day.

Arman Partamian

[ March 12, 2003: Message edited by: Arman Partamian ]

To put it simply, one of the reasons Kato Sensei was instructed to stop teaching at the Daitokan had to do with ranking procedures and the fact that rank was being given out much too freely. I can't go into more detail than that.

Kato Sensei and his group broke from the mainline in December 1991. It has been posed that Judasith's teacher began at the Daitokan in 1990 under Tokimune Sensei. Believe me, Tokimune Sensei's health was becoming poor and I doubt he had any personal attention.

In regards to Kondo Sensei, he received his Kyoju Dairi in 1974, 16 years prior to Judasith's teacher starting Daito-ryu. Furthermore, Tokimune Sensei awarded Kondo Sensei the Menkyo Kaiden in 1988!! At the same time, Kondo Sensei was charged with the position of Soke Kyoju Dairi and Overseas Director of Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure this one out!!!!!!!!!!!

Tokimune Sensei authorized Kondo Sensei to open a branch dojo in 1969! I believe he was awarded the 7th dan in mid 1980’s (believe 1985). So it seems the stories are somewhat tainted to say the least.

Ted Howell
Daito-ryu Study Group
Baltimore, Maryland

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Chris,
All I am asking for is a little courtesy; a simple Mr. works just fine. I don

Chris,..... I don

Who is Tod?

Ted, Chris, Arman, Brian...they all study under Kondo Sensei's authorized study group in Maryland, led by John Goss Sensei. They were recently ranked to shodan by Kondo Sensei himself, in the first shodan test by the mainline outside of Japan. They have all travelled to Japan to study under Kondo Sensei.

That's the story here.

Ron (sheesh) Tisdale

Therefore there is no point in saying he was awarded a Menkyo in 1988 which is a thing HE says, with no photo and no proof other than the document itself, despite the fondness of Takeda Sensei for registering everything...

Why? It certainly seems NOT a way to solve any succession problem, set aside it is very uncharacteristic for Takeda Sensei in the least... summary: no photos, no records, no other people present, no other student/elder student/sempai knowing; then, 5 years later, Kondo Sensei appears with a Menkyo and a strange story about having kept it secret until then, and magically appears also a side recording in the scrolls...

I never compared MY direct teacher here with Kondo Sensei (even if I would), but with the other elder students, Arisawa, Sano and Kato Sensei. The difference between them and Kondo Sensei is this: they began studying several years earlier and trained EVERYDAY directly with Takeda Sensei until he fell ill, while Kondo only came sometimes during the weekend from Tokyo. They were not given any Kyoju Dairi since it wasn't simply necessary: they all lived and trained in Abashiri or in the vicinities, and Takeda Sensei was THERE with them; while Kondo lived in Tokyo and needed a kyoju dairi to teach, since the Soke was in the Daitokan. Kato Sensei, instead taught for the Soke in the honbu dojo, the Daitokan, IN FRONT of the Soke, and was chief of all both administrative and technical responsibilities and teachings of the Daitokan for eleven years before Takeda Sensei's illness. Then Kondo Sensei came back from Tokyo and began his politics, and ordered them to stop doing what Takeda Sensei found right for the last eleven years, Kondo Sensei being strong because he was backed up by one of Takeda's daughters (while the other was on Kato's side), the one who momentarily held the legal reprehesentation of her father.
And still Kondo Sensei poses as a Saint and Saviour, no, he was Devil Kondo only because he respected his sensei... bah!

Yes, yes, yes, we all have heard this before!! Please do not attempt to change the direction of our questions. We ask for Kato Sensei's credentials to be made public!!!

We are not even speaking of succession!!! We are attempting to discuss legitimacy!! We have nothing to hide; information regarding the mainline Daito-ryu and Kondo Sensei is open to the public!! Your argument regarding the kyoju dairi is weak at best. And any reasoning you argue still does not change the circumstances. The questions remain the same. Waiting...

Ted Howell
Daito-ryu Study Group
Baltimore, Maryland

So what you're saying is that there are no credentials. Merely because your teacher taught at the Daitokan he believes he has the right to carry on the mainline tradition.

Despite your criticisms of Kondo Sensei's technique, his knowledge, his legitimacy, and just about everything else, let me put the facts out as you have set them forth:

1) The head master of your group believes he has a right to carry on the mainline tradition in Tokimune Sensei's name only because he taught at the Daitokan, even though he was never granted any teaching license or menkyo or kyoju dairi, or anything else other than a 5th dan.

2) Your headmaster then proceeded to grant a shihan level license (what is this, exactly?) to your teacher, who has only been studying since 1990.

3) According to you, Kondo Sensei, on the other hand, who was granted permission to open his own dojo in 1969, was granted a kyoju dairi in 1974, was granted a 7th dan in 1985, and a menkyo kaiden (despite your baseless accusations to the contrary) in 1988, doesn't know the hiden mokuroku, doesn't have good technique, and is an all-around fraud.

Have you ever listened to yourself? Are you completely immune to the mountain of facts that dispute your baseless contentions?

Why would Tokimune Sensei allow Kondo Sensei to open a branch dojo in 1969 if he didn't know what the hell he was doing? Do you question Tokimune's Sensei's character and judgment in 1969? Why would he grant Kondo Sensei a kyoju dairi in 1974 if he was so incompetent, or did the techniques incorrectly? Do you questions Tokimune Sensei's character and judgment in 1974? Why would he grant Kondo Sensei a 7th dan in 1985 (when your headmaster only has a 5th dan in comparison!) if he didn't really know the hiden mokuroku, or much of anything else to do with Daito ryu? Do you question Tokimune Sensei's character and judgment in 1985? All this without even mentioning the menkyo kaiden.

You're like the emperor in the story about the emperor's new clothes. You'll believe anything your teacher's tell you no matter what the facts suggest. If they told you you were wearing a tuxedo you'd believe it, even if you were naked.

Are we done with this nonsense yet?

[ March 14, 2003: Message edited by: Arman Partamian ]

[ March 14, 2003: Message edited by: Arman Partamian ]

In our own dojo, in the aikido class as well as Daito-ryu there are some people there who have been taking aikido and DR much longer then others, but just have not progressed in rank and skill as fast (heck in the Daito-ryu class I am one of them). For whatever reason, even though they have more time on the mat they just aren't getting it as well as other who have less time on the mat. Maybe they have learning disabilities, maybe they don't go home and review the lessons, maybe they are doing it for different reasons altogether, or maybe everyone learns at a different speeds, who knows? But being senior in "hours" doesn't grant you anything.

And does anyone think for a second that when Kondo sensei was not in Hokkaido he was just sitting around with his finger up his nose?!? I would bet dollars to doughnuts that he was practicing and training. "Hey the old man is gone, guess we don't have to do anything!?" No, I don't think so!

I'm sorry but I don't buy, "My teacher has more time on the mat then your teacher does" as a reason for legitimacy.

Let's try again...

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Originally posted by Kendoguy9:
I'm sorry but I don't buy, "My teacher has more time on the mat then your teacher does" as a reason for legitimacy.

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Neither do I. OTOH, I don't buy the "my teacher has more titles and certificates than your teacher does" as a reason for legitimacy either - that's why this kind of argument is, IMO, more or less pointless from either side.

Best,

Chris

"Then Kondo Sensei came back from Tokyo and began his politics, and ordered them to stop doing what Takeda Sensei found right for the last eleven years, Kondo Sensei being strong because he was backed up by one of Takeda's daughters (while the other was on Kato's side), the one who momentarily held the legal reprehesentation of her father."

Let's think about this for a second here...

First a Kyojudairi does what? It gives the holder the right to hold a Daito-ryu class anywhere they please. Now if we had to wait to teach, for a Kyojudairi, then Daito-ryu would have maybe a dozen branch dojo's or less (including the other lines too!). Remedy? Issue dojo charters (dojo-cho?) to people with a sandan or higher. The dojo-cho allows the person to teach in their own dojo, but nowhere else (because you need a Kyojudairi for that, which comes much later then a sandan; if all you needed was a sandan, a Kyojudairi would be worthless).

Now Mr. Kato did not have a Kyojudairi, because Tokimune sensei only gave out two, one to Kondo sensei and another to the late Shinpachi Suzuki sensei. So Mr. Kato has no right to teach anywhere he wants. Now Mr. Kato also did not have a dojo-cho because if he did he would have had his own dojo, and not taught out of the Daitokan. But Mr. Kato had the rank for a dojo-cho so if he did have a dojo-cho it surely wasn't for the Daitokan because the head of that dojo was Tokimune sensei!

Is everyone following so far?!?

Now Tokimune sensei gets ill, can't teach etc. We all know the story. Enters "Devil Kondo!" Now Mr. Kato and company see him come in and kick them out of the dojo and force them to resign. I think a more realistic scenerio is this: Kondo sensei knows that no one there has Kyojudairi or dojo-cho. Kondo sensei is unable to stay to supervise classes all the time. Last resort? Ask Mr. Kato and company to stop training and teaching for the time being. After all they have NO right to teach (above mentioned ranks/titles are lacking). Their response? "Bah! We have more time on the mat then "Devil Kondo" how come he can tell us what to do? We were allowed to teach under Tokimune sensei why can't we continue?" (please see the above items they were missing) "Let's resign!" And the rest is history.

What does this come down to? Kondo sensei respected Daito-ryu tradition, and asked the unqualified to step down. Mr. Kato and company on the other hand show their lack of "rei" and respect for tradition, which is also apparent in their students, even those as far away as Italy.

How can a man who was only allowed to teach when supervised, after his supervior is dead now teach and give permission to others to teach?!? If he can't teach on his own how can he give others that right?!? Answer: He can't! Everyone who has rank and teaching permission from Mr. Kato have been suckered, because their stuff is bogus!

Ask tough questions, get tough answers...

'Nuff Said!