Aikido Journal

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:37 am

Mr. Ledyard,

That’s one of the best and wise articles I have ever read here in this Forum. Each paragraph, each word reflects a very serious diagnostic of what I may call “where were we, where are we, and to where should we go” - from here. Think from now on, based on what have been said, that actions can be taken, otherwise words will become just words lost in a huge terrain covered by dust, as time goes by… and who knows(?) one day someone will recall the fact that You have written something relevant.

Would appreciate hearing from other significant and expressive voices, including those from Hombu Dojo.

Sincerely,

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:34 am

IMHO, Ledyard Sensei is often the couragous voice of wisdom and truth. Which simply means, I agree with him yet again. Both the under-appreciation of women and the over-emphasis on male rank are valid points.

It is the outspoken voices that facilitae evolution. Every establishment was, at one time, the rebellion.

Domo Arigato Sensei.

Joined: 23 Nov 2003 Posts: 328

Quote:

Recently a book on Aikido appeared in which the author, a senior Aikido practitioner, stated that any fourth kyu male in his dojo could take any woman in Aikido in a fight. The sheer lack of sensitivity it took to make such a statement tends to hide the fact that it also shows a complete misunderstanding of what Aikido is all about.

Maybe he never met Big Mary from the second dojo I trained at. The bruises on my arms made me look like a battered wife. Perhaps introductions can be made? Very Happy

But seriously, isn't calling for greater recognition and consideration for another group inside the Aikido world just as bad as the people who only value fighting ability at the expense of everything else?

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:14 pm

Women and Everybody Else in Aikido
by George Ledyard (http://aikidojournal.com/?id=479)

"Recently a book on Aikido...stated that any fourth kyu male in his dojo could take any woman in Aikido in a fight."

Not so sure myself...

http://www.muchosucko.com/video-chickvsguykickboxing.html

Very Happy

Joined: 22 Jul 2001 Posts: 480 Location: New Zealand

Certainly an interesting read - and interesting comments. To follow up on the - no grading - notion, follow this link:

http://www.aikidoireland.ie/articals.html

And scroll down to: Grading & Non-Grading

Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 108 Location: Dollywood

Don

http://www.muchosucko.com/video-chickvsguykickboxing.html

Interesting reading.

One should remember that the Irish Monks (years 1000-1200 were the only who had the spirit to spike against Rome, and they went down there to confront the Pope, - thou they them self were “fundamentalists” catholic.

Only were few knowing the difference of the Anglo-Saxons and Anglo Celtics spirit.

Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 108 Location: Dollywood

rupert

sorry this is the link:

http://www.aikidoireland.ie/articals.html

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:35 pm

I just want to add, that, yes, it can be difficult for women to train in aikido, but from my experience in talking to other women practitioners (on line and in real life) is that many of the problems may not be rooted with the aikido ranking system itself but with the culture each dojo is a part. Women in Japan, Brazil, United States, Germany, Austrailia will have varying experiences based on those cultures. So please take the following comment as a women from Florida, USA.

I am very fortunate to be in a dojo with two women ranked at godan (Penny Bernath and Leida Andujar). In my first year of aikido, I witness 5 women being promoted to shodan and couple more to nidan and sandan. I am also fortunate to have a sensei (Peter Bernath) who is responsive to any problems that might occur on the mat and who is very supportive of women in the dojo, but not in a patronizing way. He expects the same out of each of his students, but understands our individual struggles and helps us address those individually. He doesn't go "I treat women this way and I treat men that way." He uses women as ukes to demonstrate techniques in class, he promotes us according to skill, etc.

I agree aikido is a male dominated art, but I have not found the ranking system, the way it's applied at least in my dojo, to be restrictive. I place my own expectations and restrictions on myself.

For example, in regards to hard training or taking breakfalls, one of the male practitiones in the dojo was telling me and another woman how we didn't "need" to learn to breakfall because it's hard on the body. I responded and said, "no, I do." Because I feel like a second-class citizen if I can't. Mind you, there is no requirement in my dojo that we MUST breakfall or MUST breakfall to obtain a certain rank. I just want to learn them to be able to choose whether or not I have to breakfall. Having such a choice is much more empowering than to have to tell people, at seminars or visitors to the dojo, to throw me into rolls. I choose to aspire to train as hard as the men because I want to train as intensely as I wish. No one is forcing me to aspire to this. Also, I know I can do this because I see other women in my association doing such a thing. Just at the most recent USAF Winter Camp, I think there were somewhere between 30-40% women on the mat. All various ages and skills and levels -- from newbie to 6th dan. All were inspiring. All had their own styles some soft and some hard. But the greatest thing to see is the Shihan choosing women as ukes and seeing those women take great ukemi. What message do I get? YES, Anne Mare, you can do THAT, too.

BUT disparities in gender will change as the larger culture we are a part of changes and when each individual changes. We are the society to which we belong and that change begins with each individual on the mat not just the heads of the organizations. As more women train in aikido, there will be more female instructors who move up in rank and who will attain "high rank". I have faith in the humanity of my fellow aikido practitioners. Rarely is it that I'm treated badly on the mat JUST BECAUSE I'M A WOMAN.

However, I do agree with Ledyard Sensei, that often time a premium is also not put on grace of skill. I've often heard people refer to some women sensei, even high-ranking women sensei, that their aikido is "graceful" or "soft," as if it is a euphemism for "bad aikido." They fail to find the lessons these senseis have to offer because their grace hides their technical prowess and skill, thus they are relegated to being "less than." However, once again, I have only heard this uttered by a few individuals.

Finally, I don't agree that because of this "disparity" rank should be done away with or altered. You would only be treating a symptom to a much deeper problem that is not only sexism in aikido but also plain old sexism in our individual cultures as well. If you want to address gender differences in your dojo or aikido association, please look at the larger culture you belong, and also at yourself. (btw, I'm not refering to Ledyard Sensei, the "you" is a general "all-inclusive" "you".)

What can you do? Listen to your female practitioners, if they think something is wrong, do NOT treat it like it's in their head. Address the issue, be there if there is a problem. Also, I don't want any sort of token rank just because I'm a woman, the worst thing you could do with me on the mat is "go easy" on me just because I'm a woman, not teach me to breakfall just because I'm a woman, not expect as much from me as you do the men just because I'm a woman. Expect from me what I'm fully capable of doing. I'm only asking to be treated as a human being.

Joined: 04 Oct 2004 Posts: 374 Location: Florida

Excellent entry, George-san...

I, too, have noted with interest the lack of information and exposure for female instructors in Japan. But I wonder if this does not extend to other arts as well, and further into the Japanese business world in general. It seems to be a totally male-dominated society, so perhaps it would be somewhat unfair to single out the Aikido community for this deficiency.

I do know of one exceptional example of a female Aikido chief instructor in Japan... Miyako Fujitani Sensei, who unfortunately is more widely known as Steven Segal's ex-wife. She is (or WAS, when they were together) his senior in the dojo, however.

As for the 4th-kyu male vs. the yudansha female, I would have to take issue with that one... I have met several ladies who were practically untouchable on the mat. I have always thought that females had somewhat of an offhand advantage, because they have to get the technique down perfectly, rather than outweigh or overpower a training partner, as men (at least myself) are often wont to do. It's similar to what we see when a diminuitive Japanese master tosses around a roomfull of us big grocery-eating gaijin with relative ease. Embarassed

Joined: 19 May 2000 Posts: 612 Location: Bellevue,WA USA

AnMarie wrote:

I just want to add, that, yes, it can be difficult for women to train in aikido, but from my experience in talking to other women practitioners (on line and in real life) is that many of the problems may not be rooted with the aikido ranking system itself but with the culture each dojo is a part. Women in Japan, Brazil, United States, Germany, Austrailia will have varying experiences based on those cultures. So please take the following comment as a women from Florida, USA.

I am very fortunate to be in a dojo with two women ranked at godan (Penny Bernath and Leida Andujar). In my first year of aikido, I witness 5 women being promoted to shodan and couple more to nidan and sandan. I am also fortunate to have a sensei (Peter Bernath) who is responsive to any problems that might occur on the mat and who is very supportive of women in the dojo, but not in a patronizing way. He expects the same out of each of his students, but understands our individual struggles and helps us address those individually. He doesn't go "I treat women this way and I treat men that way." He uses women as ukes to demonstrate techniques in class, he promotes us according to skill, etc.

I agree aikido is a male dominated art, but I have not found the ranking system, the way it's applied at least in my dojo, to be restrictive. I place my own expectations and restrictions on myself.

For example, in regards to hard training or taking breakfalls, one of the male practitiones in the dojo was telling me and another woman how we didn't "need" to learn to breakfall because it's hard on the body. I responded and said, "no, I do." Because I feel like a second-class citizen if I can't. Mind you, there is no requirement in my dojo that we MUST breakfall or MUST breakfall to obtain a certain rank. I just want to learn them to be able to choose whether or not I have to breakfall. Having such a choice is much more empowering than to have to tell people, at seminars or visitors to the dojo, to throw me into rolls. I choose to aspire to train as hard as the men because I want to train as intensely as I wish. No one is forcing me to aspire to this. Also, I know I can do this because I see other women in my association doing such a thing. Just at the most recent USAF Winter Camp, I think there were somewhere between 30-40% women on the mat. All various ages and skills and levels -- from newbie to 6th dan. All were inspiring. All had their own styles some soft and some hard. But the greatest thing to see is the Shihan choosing women as ukes and seeing those women take great ukemi. What message do I get? YES, Anne Mare, you can do THAT, too.

BUT disparities in gender will change as the larger culture we are a part of changes and when each individual changes. We are the society to which we belong and that change begins with each individual on the mat not just the heads of the organizations. As more women train in aikido, there will be more female instructors who move up in rank and who will attain "high rank". I have faith in the humanity of my fellow aikido practitioners. Rarely is it that I'm treated badly on the mat JUST BECAUSE I'M A WOMAN.

However, I do agree with Ledyard Sensei, that often time a premium is also not put on grace of skill. I've often heard people refer to some women sensei, even high-ranking women sensei, that their aikido is "graceful" or "soft," as if it is a euphemism for "bad aikido." They fail to find the lessons these senseis have to offer because their grace hides their technical prowess and skill, thus they are relegated to being "less than." However, once again, I have only heard this uttered by a few individuals.

Finally, I don't agree that because of this "disparity" rank should be done away with or altered. You would only be treating a symptom to a much deeper problem that is not only sexism in aikido but also plain old sexism in our individual cultures as well. If you want to address gender differences in your dojo or aikido association, please look at the larger culture you belong, and also at yourself. (btw, I'm not refering to Ledyard Sensei, the "you" is a general "all-inclusive" "you".)

What can you do? Listen to your female practitioners, if they think something is wrong, do NOT treat it like it's in their head. Address the issue, be there if there is a problem. Also, I don't want any sort of token rank just because I'm a woman, the worst thing you could do with me on the mat is "go easy" on me just because I'm a woman, not teach me to breakfall just because I'm a woman, not expect as much from me as you do the men just because I'm a woman. Expect from me what I'm fully capable of doing. I'm only asking to be treated as a human being.

The issue of gender bias is just one manifestation of all kinds of bias that show up all over. A person with a slightly different personailty won't get ahead in a group which is fairly cohesive because theit difference threatens the cohesiveness of that group. It's been shown time and time again that good looking people will move ahead of homely folks. There are certainly folks out there who don't want to learn Aikido from me because I am overweight.

It sounds to me as if you are in a great dojo from the standpoint of getting equal treatment that encourages you and doesn't hold you back. That's what needed plus years of time on the mat of course).

People are capabale of change... I spent five years or so training at the dojo of Mary Heiny Sensei in Seattle back in the very early eighties. When I first arrived there were very few men in the dojo. It took me, as a big man, nearly two years of training five days a week before I felt that I was accepted as a real member of the dojo. When I first ariived there I was definitely perceived as a threat. Mary sensei kept a careful lid on how hard I was able to train. Any time I would start to really mambo with my other male friend, Mark Reader, Mary was right there going "boys, boys, now calm down".

But something miraculous happened. Mary Heiny is an example of someone who has used her Aikido as a path to personal transformation perhaps more than any other person I know. By the end of my training under her, she had totally changed. Mark and I could get our yah, yahs out and Mary Sensei would watch and just laugh and wander off to some other part of the mat. Training was a pure joy. When she left to go to Canada after ten years of running the Seattle School of Aikido I was the first person asked to take over from her and help the school get through the difficult transition of having its founder leave. This, and I was a student of Saotome Sensei. I know very few people who have made such radical changes of outlook in their lives.

Of course the ideal would be for every student to have his traiing tailored for his or her particular needs. In talking about gender issues we are only dealing with a very gross division of people into a couple main groups. What we know about learning styles etc. these days shows that even within fairly hokmogenious groups there are widely differing styles of learning. It is impossible in a large group setting to address these issues completely. The smaller tha class, the more freedom for the teacher to deal with each students particular reuirements. One of the very important events we hold at our dojo is a twice yearly Weapons and Randori training. We train for 7 hrs a day for four days straight and it is limited to 14 people. I have found that this event has been very important in helping me fine tune the traiing of my senior students. This is where I have been able to experiement with different teaching techniques and viusalizations that click for students who have performance blocks. So all disparity between students getting what they need is not gender based but can be simply the student being in a situation which doesn't work as well for him as some other student.

I wil say that I think that the Aikido scene in the United Staes is fairly positive for women when compared to some other places, like Japan. Yet there is still termendous bias that sneaks in in various ways. Not surprising since relations between the sexes have been the topic of more discussion over history than any other topic. It is important to recognize that bias can go both ways and female instructors are just as much responsible for supporting their male students in ways that help them optimize their training as male teachers are their female students. It's all about guiding people to find the balance point in their lives and whereas this is the same job for both men and women that techiques used need to be different.

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:27 pm

Ledyard Sensei,

Thanks for your reply. I do agree that disparities can go both ways, no doubt about that, and if a situation was reversed where it was female dominated rather than male dominated another set of bias would reveal itself. However, female dominated schools are rare, but they do exist, so we will more often find more women experience the negative end of the bias than the men. And despite my good experience, I'm very aware, through my bulletin board with other female aikido practitioners, that in some dojos there are bad experiences as well. You hit some points on the head with your article, and your second post cleared up your intent behind it. I much rather have someone categorized for their learning style rather than gender, and it sounds as though that is indeed what you do. It just makes better sense. However, there are those that do not, even in the U.S.

Joined: 19 May 2000 Posts: 612 Location: Bellevue,WA USA

Don wrote:

Women and Everybody Else in Aikido
by George Ledyard (http://aikidojournal.com/?id=479)

"Recently a book on Aikido...stated that any fourth kyu male in his dojo could take any woman in Aikido in a fight."

Not so sure myself...

http://www.muchosucko.com/video-chickvsguykickboxing.html

Very Happy

Don,
She's one tough lady! But you are clearly spending too much time surfing the net... I mean "muchosucko.com"? How the hell do you come up with this stuff and still manage to quote the authors you do? I think you need to have some fun.
- George

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:44 pm

George S. Ledyard wrote:

Don,
She's one tough lady! But you are clearly spending too much time surfing the net... I mean "muchosucko.com"? How the hell do you come up with this stuff and still manage to quote the authors you do? I think you need to have some fun.
- George

Too true. I know. I was embarrassed to post it. But someone sent me a vid of some little kid doing this amazing BO kata. It wasn't martial, but what an amazing performance. I sifted through the site and most of its dreck, but there's some funny stuff, too--Tae Kwon Do chimps and double-nunchaku back-flip-face-plants (what heart though, he came up reeling but flicking that remaining chuck!)

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:51 am

Actually, I didn't think she was so much tough, as competent. While the guy had bad movement, bad mechanics, and a bad chin. Smile

Not to take anything away from her...

RT (had my own butt kicked by a female kickboxer back in the day)

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:02 pm

I posted a reply yesterday, but it mysteriously seems to have disappeared. Oh well.

I wanted to say that I am not all that impressed by her either. The guy is clearly not a trained fighter, and the video is a good example of how technique can win out over no technique. If it were a guy instead of a girl, no-one would comment, but the fact that it is a girl seems to impress - and thereby the myth of women being inferior in martial arts to men is unwittingly perpetuated.

Hey Don, where's that video of the kid with the jo, that sounds like an interesting one.

cheers,